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FAI-Glasgow Bin Lorry.
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W.Roughead



Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 240


Location: Ayr, Scotland.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:53 pm    Post subject: FAI-Glasgow Bin Lorry.  Reply with quote

I was wondering if anyone else thought as I do with regard to the Crown not bringing a prosecution against Harry Clark?  

I think it's disgusting and wrong on all levels.   We all know lying is not a criminal offence, but it is the results of lying and withholding surely, that should be the grounds for proceedings.

I think this is wrong, and that they should not have made a statement like that until at least after the FAI findings.

There are devastated families who have lost loved ones on 22nd December'14, as well as the memories associated with that day for those who survived, that should be considered.

I think it highly unlikely that a private prosecution will be successful, and it will be very expensive, my heart goes out to these people who, we all know, are not thinking of bringing this prosecution to get money, as I think they know that would be a lost cause, but rather to see justice.

I don't necessarily want a massive 3 or 4 page discussion on this topic here, but this sight is, after all, about the pursuit of justice, hence my question.
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frank



Joined: 09 Mar 2015
Posts: 72



PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it a complete shambles that the Crown can conclude there will be no charges.

Everyone directly affected by this tragedy have been severely let down. What is the point with a FAI if the person responsible for the tragedy does not need to answer questions if he doesn't feel like it.

Farce of a justice system and more pain for the families.





.
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W.Roughead



Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 240


Location: Ayr, Scotland.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes frank I feel that way too, you can only imagine what these families, both the bereaved and the badly injured on the day, must be feeling at what appears to be nothing more than farce.

The Crown must have decided they had a very good reason for taking the actions they have.

What worries me also, are the wider implications for the many hundreds of people who, for health reasons, still have to go through medical checks to ensure they can still drive, these are the honest people who will say whether they've been ill or not, with regards to any form of condition which causes blackouts.

Doubtless, there will also most probably be a number of people around in a similar position to this man, who have 'not yet' caused deaths when they should not have been driving.   Prior to this of course, there were the two girls who were killed in Glasgow near the Buchanan Galleries - their parents are disgusted also, they got no justice.

Something has to change.
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Iain McKie



Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 935


Location: Ayr, Scotland.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me this is the tip of a very nasty iceberg. We have a Crown Office and Lord Advocate who are accountable to no-one. Using their 'independence' to excuse appalling judgement and at times incompetence.

In Scotland we have turned a genuine need for an ‘independent' prosecution and judiciary into a situation where politicians appear unable or unwilling to call these authorities to account in the name of the people.

It is  ironic that ‘the public interest’ is brought into play to excuse actions which are very much against that interest.

In the bin lorry tragedy it is clear that the public interest and that of the victims has not been served.

Let’s hope that the wisdom and constitutional legality of these actions are fully tested via a private prosecution.

Just to add a touch of the surreal the Lord Avocate can choose to oppose such a prosecution.

Quote:
‘The procedure involves applying directly to the High Court for a Bill of Criminal letters, to allow a prosecution to be brought by a concerned individual, rather than the Lord Advocate. The most recent application brought in 1995 was rejected. The Lord Advocate may oppose any motion lodged at the High Court for a private prosecution.’
http://www.firmmagazine.com/priva...ld-be-easier-and-more-accessible/

Would he dare? You bet he would!
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W.Roughead



Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 240


Location: Ayr, Scotland.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh I am utterly convinced that the Lord Advocate would Ian.

I think it is just awful that this man walks away with never being charged.

I think this also opens big questions for public transport, bin lorries and any other situation where the public should be protected from the man at the wheel, so to speak.  I just hope otherwise totally innocent, law abiding people who have been honest about medical conditions, are not drawn into this aftermath, and have to go through even more stringent medicals as a direct result of this case.

He is a man who should have his driving licence taken away for life.
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Iain McKie



Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 935


Location: Ayr, Scotland.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While accepting what you say Willie it was a system failure not just individual failings.

An unthinking system with little compassion, working in a culture of self interest, is a recipe for injustice.

Families let down by the justice system.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-new...stice-process?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34063283

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-n...w-bin-lorry-tragedy-could-6328606
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W.Roughead



Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 240


Location: Ayr, Scotland.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't it be lovely if one of our Scottish millionaires were to give some money to the bereaved families, thereby allowing them to bring a private prosecution.

Although I won't be holding my breath, even if they had the money, that they would successfully do so - it saddens me to say, because this all could have been avoided if the driver had be truthful all along.   For him not even to be interviewed by the police after the accident, is astonishing even to me.

The survivors will carry their own visions of that day for the rest of their lives, the daughter only inches from her mother, will see her mother's final moments, every day for the rest of her life, now she can't go to crowded places - her life in ruins, all because this man lied, lied and lied again.

Disgraceful.
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Iain McKie



Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 935


Location: Ayr, Scotland.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't disagree Willie however it is the system that allows such injustice.

Having a judiciary and Crown Office virtually off limits for criticism and  politicians who are loathe to 'challenge' their 'independence' is a far bigger danger than any individual who, for whatever reasons, seeks to lie or hide the truth.

As ever the driver is being hung out to dry while the system moves seamlessly on.

Let's hope a private prosecution proves possible and gives the relatives some closure.
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Iain McKie



Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 935


Location: Ayr, Scotland.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
SCOTLAND’S top law officer has said he has “no doubt” it was the right decision not to prosecute the driver in the Glasgow bin lorry tragedy.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/tran...vocate-defends-decision-1-3871543
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W.Roughead



Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 240


Location: Ayr, Scotland.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Throughout our lives, I'm sure all of us at one time or another have heard of people being badly injured or killed, as the result of a driver suddenly having a heart attack at the wheel.  Whilst it is not an every day occurrence, it does happen.

I am sure, like me Iain you might remember the incident in the 60s when a man driving to work along Alloway Place, in Ayr took a heart attack and killed pedestrians.   I can't recall if it was one or more, but I remember the incident very clearly.   I worked there at the time, which is why it is so clearly in my mind.

That's so unfortunate and no-one's fault.  But, this is something totally different.   When I first heard of this on the day it happened, I was in shock and felt so sorry for the driver, one should never assume, but I had assumed he had taken a heart attack.

All these months on, I now have no sympathy, other than the fact that this is something he has to live with, but after being examined by cardiologist Professor Andrew Rankin, who was given access to some of his 2010 records,  Mr. Clarke still asked DVLA to have his HGV licence reinstated in April of this year, indicating to me at least, he thought he was in the right.

I find it utterly amazing.  We know that, unless you are giving evidence as a witness at a trial, where if you are found to have lied on oath, you have committed perjury, which is a chargeable offence, but in Mr. Clarke's case, where there is no prosecution etc., you can be found to have lied almost throughout your career, with no charge, as lying per se is not a criminal offence.

I find it amazing that even our Scottish Judiciary, didn't think, and as we know have since reiterated, that no charges would be laid at his door.

It will be very difficult for any of these families to bring about a successful private prosecution I'm afraid, and if they did, I hope some wealthy millionaire Scot who believes in justice, will financially aid them.

I'm not saying Mr. Clarke should be persecuted for the rest of his life, and it is not a witch hunt, but there has to be something for the families involved, not just them, but the people who have lived with the day itself over and over in their minds, those not killed but injured, their lives will never be the same.

I don't know if his licence has been reinstated, but whether HGV or Private Car, he should not be driving in the light of these events.

But, if he does have these licences, then I pray that he is not behind a wheel on any street, in future that I or my friends, and family are walking along!


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Sincere thanks to all those who have supported Shirley and challenged miscarriages of justice on this forum.