shirleymckie.myfastforum.org

Lydia · Joined: 06 Nov 2008 Posts: 82

We are the parents in Scotland whose children had organs removed at post mortem for use in research. Some children had post mortems without the knowledge or consent of their parents.

I am not sure if other people can imagine what it feels like to discover that your dead child has been laid on a cold slab to allow pathologists to remove any part they wish and to use this for any reason they wish. The bodies were mutilated beyond anything you could imagine.

Perhaps you may understand a little more if I tell you of one dead four year old girl taken from the arms of her parents by Fiscal staff and police, moved around four hospitals to allow pathologists to remove what they needed and wanted.

Discovering this sometimes just at the point where a parent may just be starting to find a little peace or acceptance of the death of their child has created an organisation of people suffering from alcoholism, drug taking, suicidal feelings, and also a group of people who give their own time and money to fight and help others.

This has also produced people who can see the benefits of research but feel strongly that the crux of the problem is a parent, giving authorisation, and kept informed at every stage of what will happen if they give that consent and also the benefits of plain speech. We also recognise that no matter how much of the education we campaign for is carried out some will want to say “no“ and that is their right.

In some cases, it is compulsory for the protection of children for the Procurators Fiscal to carry out a post mortem; obligatory because the law cannot take for granted the fact that no parent would ever hurt their child.

The stories are endless too many to tell them all here.

The one thing that every parent agrees on is that the current HFE Bill has overtaken any of the horror we felt in the past and replaced it with raw fear for the future.

The horror felt at the thought of the creation of hybrid embryos and the ethical and moral problems connected with that felt terrifying for us but not as bad as the thought of where would the material come from.

We could see this as the reason behind the opt out system as pathologists would again have unlimited access to bodies. The bill we fought for let us down badly as yes we did manage to make changes in hospital post mortems but the Labour government also managed to insert a clause which allowed the procurator Fiscal to remove material “in the public interest”.

With very little publicity, the government submitted a very late amendment to this bill, which allows scientist doctor’s pathologists legally to take parts of tissue from the reproductive organs from people with what they call “low capacity” to create hybrid embryos.

In fact, the new HFE bill allows this material to be taken from all of us. They are targeting the most vulnerable in society, I suppose because they feel people will not stand up and protect them. I do not have a university education; I am also disabled, would I come under the heading of “low capacity”.

One day your DNA may exist within a creature, which is half-human half-animal living in a cage.

This is a personal opinion but I believe that within as little as one year this mad American scientist will be back looking for another amendment to allow the implantation of these hybrids into animals. Labour will want this before they lose the next election.

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We are the parents in Scotland denied justice for our children who had illegal post mortem's or had organs removed illegally at post mortem.

scotkaz · Joined: 28 Aug 2008 Posts: 527

Lydia

This is horrific.

Does your organisation have a website?

I would not wish this to happen to anyone.

Take care

Karen
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Great Spirit, grant that I may not criticize my neighbor until I have walked a mile in his moccasins." - Old Native American Indian Prayer that my dad taught me.

*Angel* · Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 86

Lydia!

The terrible trauma for all of you, first to loose a child, then to discover that organs are removed illegaly, and to know that the child have been transported to many different hospitals so that pathologists can remove what they wish. To do terrible research on, as a mother my heart breaks for all of you.

How can the pathologists sleep with this on their conscience? They must have known that they did this illegaly.

The Procurator Fiscal staff and the police how can they live with what they do and they are the ones that should protect the people.

And have they not svore an oath to protect innocent and uphold the law??

We must be given the choice to concent to donate organ or not.

Scotkaz!

This link is to Justice For The Innocents

http://justicefortheinnocents.blogspot.com/

W.Roughead · Joined: 25 Oct 2008 Posts: 120 Location: Scotland.

Lydia,

I cannot even begin to imagine the pain you and the other parents have been put through.

This is so awful.

I visited your website this morning after I read your comments above. I wish you every success. This must not be allowed to happen again.

Solitary voices stand little or no chance of being heard - no matter what the subject matter. As a group, however, you have a far better strength.
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“Send not to know for whom the bell tolls – it tolls for thee.” John Donne.

*Angel* · Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 86

Both links to Justice For The Innocents

http://justicefortheinnocents.blogspot.com/

http://www.freewebs.com/justicefo...ocents/theuseofliveembryosand.htm

*AngeL*

Angeline · Joined: 02 Oct 2008 Posts: 148

This is horrifying. I cannot imagine the pain and suffering this has caused for you, and all of the other parents invovled. Is there no end to what our governments and scientists will do in their manic scramble for power and control. The issues raised by this particular story are terrifying - what possible "benefits" can be achieved by creating hybrid creatures, or even, for that matter, attempting to play god and create lives which would never exist naturally? Please don't misunderstand me, if we can produce treatments, etc, which allieviate pain and suffering, then, of course, we should try to do so. But this is something altogether different, and its objectives are not at all clear.
Once again, we see government sneaking in amendments secretly, so that nobody knows until it's too late. If government ministers were perfectly OK with what they were doing, why hide it? Why keep it secret? We know the answers, of course.
Your organisation is doing a fantastic job. Stick together, stay strong, and keep up the good work.
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As long as one heart still holds on, then hope will never really be gone

Lydia · Joined: 06 Nov 2008 Posts: 82

Thank you so much all of you for your comments, understanding and support. Unfortunately, none of the work we have done so far has had a great deal of effect.

I think for all the parents the fact that we are together and can spread the word to others and ultimately give a little understanding helps.

As I said in my original post, the horror stories are too many to post but you all seem to have grasped the frustration and the heartache behind them.

I believe every person I meet has benefited from some type of research but that does not give any person the right to own our bodies, only the right to explain the benefit and ask our permission.

Personally, many years ago I gave a statement to the effect that my organs could be used for transplant or research or teaching, I will now retract that statement, as this will be part of our campaign to have this amendment retracted. We will ask every person to resign from the organ donor register, and refuse where possible post mortems.

You all have so many stories to tell too and justice unfortunately seems to be almost non-existent in some of the stories and issues I have read on this site. I wish I could help at least some of you.

All we can do is I think what we do, work hard to highlight our own cases and where we can the others we come across. Help each other, give support and where relevant pray to our God that improvements can be made to our systems.

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We are the parents in Scotland denied justice for our children who had illegal post mortem's or had organs removed illegally at post mortem.