shirleymckie.myfastforum.org

scotkaz · Joined: 28 Aug 2008 Posts: 526

Why is it in this country that every defendant does not automatically get an entire copy of his/her trial transcripts?

I know in the many cases in USA I have been involved in, every single prisoner fighting their case was given a copy free of charge of their transcripts.

In fact many had their transcripts online since they are public records.

Who would I ask in Government about this query I have?

Thanks in advance

Big Wullie · Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 1149 Location: Glasgow

Back in 1982 when I asked for the trial transcript in my case I was told I would have to pay £500 per day of evidence.

God knows what this would be now.

I think Big Mac actually paid for one, perhaps he could give us an idea of what the cost is now. ?

I was locked up in prison with absolutely no funds whatever and this should have been provided free.

Now I am told it was destroyed after 10 years.

But they have kept letters I wrote to High Court from 1982.

Serious questions need to be asked about this issue.

Fiscal · Joined: 23 Dec 2008 Posts: 111 Location: Edinburgh

ScotKaz you should contact Kenny McAskil or the Justice Department at the Scottish Exec.
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Mr Fiscal

Big Wullie · Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 1149 Location: Glasgow

Scotkaz

Can I suggest that if you want to make any changes in this area then you contact the Law Commission.

Kenny MacAskill has already been asked about disclosure here and it was answered by Frank Mulholland:

S3W-13233 - Bill Kidd (Glasgow) (SNP) (Date Lodged Tuesday, May 20, 2008): To ask the Scottish Executive what progress has been made in implementing recommendations 29 and 30 of The ACPOS and Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service working group formed to develop joint protocols, as recommended in the Bonomy Report.

Answered by Frank Mulholland QC (Wednesday, May 28, 2008): Both recommendations relate to the disclosure of evidence in criminal proceedings by the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service (COPFS) and the Scottish police.

Recommendation 29 suggested that the police and COPFS should commit to a process of full disclosure in all solemn cases in connection with the implementation of High Court Reform in 2005.

Recommendation 30 suggested that COPFS should consider a pilot for routine disclosure of a summary of the Crown case in summary cases.

I am pleased to confirm that both recommendations have been implemented in full, Recommendation 29 was implemented in November 2004 when the then Lord Advocate Lord Boyd issued a Crown Practice Statement in relation to the disclosure of evidence by the Crown in High Court Cases.

The Crown Practice Statement took full effect from 1 January 2005 and continues to apply to all High Court cases indicted on or after 1 April 2005 and was extended to all solemn cases from 1 September 2005.

In relation to Recommendation 30, a successful pilot was conducted in Dumfries and Galloway in 2007 and the new process was rolled out nationally in September 2007 to support the Summary Justice Reform programme. All summary complaints now include a summary of evidence against the accused.

Clearly the Frank Mulholland guy is misleading Kenny MacAskill here because we all know people are still being denied access to documents.

Other questions Bill Kidd has asked like Defective Representation and section 194J can be found here:

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk.../Business/PQA/default.aspx?page=3

Can I also suggest you gain the support of at least one MSP before doing this

http://williambeck.blogspot.com/

Best Wishes

Wullie Beck

Angeline · Joined: 02 Oct 2008 Posts: 146

Something I have come across just recently regarding disclosure and defective representation shocked me to the core.

I have studied the paperwork of two individuals fighting wrongful convictions, and was horrified to discover their defence teams had constructed applications for leave to appeal without having any access to trial transcripts.

How on earth is that possible? One lot said they'd worked from the judge's summing up (even though this case actually hinged on a number of witnesses who could be proven to have lied on the stand), the other offered no explanation at all, saying appeals are "a matter for legal professionals - most people simply don't understand the procedures."

What a cop out. Sadly, in both of these cases, the people involved had no idea that anything was amiss, and went ahead with applications which were (unsurprisingly) rejected.

I had one other case last year where the family were told there were "no grounds for appeal," again without reference to trial transcripts. Having secured those transcripts by themselves (at enormous expense, I might add), and worked through various bits and pieces, the appeal (for which they were told there were no grounds) has been permitted, and will be heard next month!

The most recent government objectives, due to be implemented this year, involve "changing" fee structures to "incentivise" defence teams to "prepare cases earlier" or, better still, encourage their clients to plead guilty.

It doesn't take the Brain of Britain to see where that one's going - the Prosecution just sits on information until the time limit imposed on the defence runs out, and the case is forced to go ahead with a severely limited defence.
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As long as one heart still holds on, then hope will never really be gone

Angeline · Joined: 02 Oct 2008 Posts: 146

I should have pointed out in the last post that there are no such restrictions proposed for the Prosecution.
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As long as one heart still holds on, then hope will never really be gone

Fiscal · Joined: 23 Dec 2008 Posts: 111 Location: Edinburgh

There is ample opportunity for either party to make motions to the court at procedural diets for extensions of time limits - these are usually granted if there is a reasonable excuse for doing so regardless of wheteher or not it is opposed by the other party.
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Mr Fiscal

scotkaz · Joined: 28 Aug 2008 Posts: 526

Wullie

I am in the process of writing to several different people regarding my queries.

Something struck me today though after reading what you and Angeline have said about not getting the documents and information about cases.

I have spoken to several lawyers over the years and they have given me more information on other peoples's case over the phone, and then sent me all the documents and I wasnt even their client. When I think of this compared to what happens with our cases in Scotland, I could weep.

How can it be that I can get all this information about other people yet you guys who need this information, which is yours by right, and cannot get it?

It really makes me angry to think that our country is so secretive about these cases.

caldem · Joined: 01 Mar 2009 Posts: 2 Location: dalkeith

Anyone convicted who plans to appeal will be in the position to obtain the transcripts free of charge via SLAB through their solicitor. Solicitors need transcripts of the case to formulate grounds and they should assist you. Or are you intimating a case from a while back and therefore a lack of legal assistance.
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don't let the crown get you down

Fiscal · Joined: 23 Dec 2008 Posts: 111 Location: Edinburgh

Only if they were granted Legal Aid in the first place. The court interlocuters are also provided to legal reps in order for appeal grounds....contact the Clerk of Court for the appropriate court who should advise what fees are charged for non-SLAB matters.

The Crown are not furnished with court transcripts and are not in receipt of such documents unless there is an appeal so COPFS will be of no help, simply because they can't.

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Mr Fiscal