shirleymckie.myfastforum.org

scotkaz · Joined: 28 Aug 2008 Posts: 527

If these people have not committed a crime in this country, which apparantly they have not. Then why has our Justice Minister Kenny McAskill signed an extradition order to send these people to US to be tried and possibly imprisoned in Arizona for a very long time. And trust me in Arizona it would be a long time. They have commited no crime in this country.

This is a bit like someone being accused of commiting a crime under Saudi Arabian law in THIS country, where it was not a crime, being asked to send someone to be stoned, flogged or have their hands cut off under Sharia law. Would people stand by and allow this to happen? I dont think so.

This family have 4 children and another on the way. Apart from breaking up a family when no crime has been commited in this country by these people, what about the children? Would they be sent to homes? And who pays for the care they will need?

This case is an atrocity.

http://www.sundaypost.com/postindex.htm

US jail threat to Scots family

Brian Howes with his pregnant wife Kerry and their daughters.By Craig Robertson

A SCOTS mum facing extradition to the US still doesn’t know when her fate will be decided — despite being due to give birth in just 10 days.

Mum-of-four Kerry Howes, who has been diagnosed with severe depression and post traumatic stress disorder, appeared at the High Court in Edinburgh on Friday but a hearing date was not set.

It means the 31-year-old faces a home birth without knowing if she will soon be taken 5000 miles away and thrown into jail.

Up to 98 years

Kerry and husband Brian (45) from Bo’ness face up to 98 years in an Arizona jail if found guilty of exporting chemicals US authorities claim were used to make the drug crystal meth.

The couple ran a legal chemical business — Lab Chemicals International — until targeted by undercover agents posing as buyers after a tip-off by one American citizen.

They accused Brian and Kerry of selling iodine and red phosphorus in the knowledge they would be used to manufacture the highly addictive drug. The couple maintain they were simply selling chemicals to be used in amateur pyrotechnics.

Red phosphorous is perfectly legal in the UK but strictly regulated in the US.

“We’ve done nothing wrong,” Brian told The Sunday Post. “We sold chemicals online to be used in fireworks, some as medication for animals and for sheep dip. We sold them everywhere except where they were embargoed.

Registered

“We were registered with the Special Branch and the Home Office. Central Scotland Police visited us regularly and we would ask if there was anything on the site we shouldn’t be selling and they always said no. Also we only dealt in credit card sales so all transactions were traceable.

“They even asked us to report any Muslim names among the people buying from us and we agreed to do that. Then the next thing we know we face extradition to the US without any evidence against us whatsoever.”

Brian and Kerry spent 214 days in separate prisons without charge last year, he in Saughton and she in Cornton Vale.

The couple were eventually released on bail but only after Brian went on a 30-day hunger strike to prevent the children being put into care.

That episode has left him with minor brain damage. Kerry has been left depressed at the prospect of losing her children — Denni (11), Bethaney (10), Ellie (6) and Leela (3).

One-sided treaty

The couple are victims of the one-sided post-September 11 extradition treaty which allows UK citizens to be forced to the US to stand trial. It allows Britons to be extradited without prima facie evidence of criminality.

“We’re being extradited on false information and none of it can be challenged,” said Brian.

The couple’s cases are now being considered separately and Kerry returned to the High Court in Edinburgh on Friday. She met with a new advocate and new medical reports were called for.

“No date was set, not even for a preliminary hearing,” explained Brian. “The judges said they were unhappy that our cases are being dealt with separately.

Refused

“My case is scheduled for May 26 to 29 and Kerry’s will not be set until after that. If I win, she wins automatically, that has been made clear. If I lose then she will go into court after that.”

The couple have been refused application to have their bail conditions changed to allow both of them to attend hospital for the birth of the baby.

Brian’s curfew insists he is at home from 8 pm to 8 am and both must sign on at their local police station three times a day. As a result they feel they have no option but to go for a home birth.

The extradition was formally approved by Scottish Justice Minister Kenny MacAskill. A Justice spokesman said they could not comment subject to the appeal to the High Court.

scotkaz · Joined: 28 Aug 2008 Posts: 527

Howes family Extradition appeal and Illegal remand

http://extradition.org.uk/

Howes Family Extradition Fight Please Help Petition. Please sign and pass around to people in your address book.

http://www.petition.co.uk/howes_family_extradition_fight_please_help

Big Wullie · Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 1149 Location: Glasgow

The shocking Story of the Howes can be followed here on You Tube:

http://www.youtube.com/results?se...search_query=Brian+Howes&aq=f

If they have not committed a crime under our Laws then they should not be extradicted.

Notice the police wanted all Asian names buying materials eh ? Pointing to severe Racism.

Best wishes Brian & Family

scotkaz · Joined: 28 Aug 2008 Posts: 527

This is from American friends of mine

What if the US Government decided the Scottish Parliament was a rogue government and sought to extradite all it's duly elected members? Sounds implausible, right? Take a stand now to protect one of your own citizens Del

This appears to be an entrapment case. If you do a google search on iodine and red phosphorus, you will find numerous websites selling these ingredients with numerous magazine, newspaper and journal articles about these compounds as flame retadants. One article in "Plastics Magazine" writes that red phosphorus is expected to be banned but without halogens. Reportedly, red phosphorus powder, which can be used effectively as a flame-control additive.

http://www.ecplaza.net/tradeleads...745946/red_phosphorus_iodine.html

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-58351043.html

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/j150255a009

Apparently the authorities did not send the couple an advisory to stop selling certain of their online products. Should American authorities run a "sting" operation on every website that sells chemicals online to see if they can entrap them? Should all sales of anything be banned from online sales IN CASE SOMEONE ELSE WILL MAKE SOMETHING ILLEGAL FROM THE PRODUCT(S)? Sellers are not responsible for what buyers do with the products they purchase. This would be like making the recipient of a phone call or a letter in the mail responsible for what the caller says or writes. This is like making the reader of a book responsible for what the author writes. The world and American specifically has gone mad with imprisoning human beings and it's time to stop this insanity.

Blessings,
Sherry
www.patrickcrusade.org

Pat A. Wertheim · Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Posts: 73 Location: USA

Keep in mind that I do not automatically believe everything put out by my own government. But this press release from US law enforcement tells a slightly different story than the above cited newspaper articles:
http://www.ice.gov/pi/news/newsreleases/articles/070130phoenix.htm

If you listen to the Howes, they are pure and innocent. If you listen to the police, they were knowingly and intentionally supplying vital chemicals to dozens of illegal methamphetamine laboratories, thus contributing to drug addiction of untold numbers of youths.

If they were first taken down in England and moved to Scotland hoping to avoid further scrutiny by English police, you have to wonder why they didn't reexamine their operation instead of just relocating it.

I'll reserve judgement until I learn more.
_________________
Pat A. Wertheim
foridents@aol.com

scotkaz · Joined: 28 Aug 2008 Posts: 527

What concerns me in this case is that NO crime was committed in this country. I am reading more on the case which is on http://corruption.org.uk

However, these two people who have commited no crime in Scotland or UK for that matter would be sent to Maricopa County in Arizona. They have a very infamous Sheriff named Joe Arpio and he and the county hav a human rights record that is terrifying.

Our Scottish Government KNOWS about all of this yet still signs an extradtion order. Amnesty International and ACLU have been fighting for years about Human Rights. I thought WE had protection as Scottish Citizens from being handed over for this kind of treatment??

scotkaz · Joined: 28 Aug 2008 Posts: 527

http://www.mcso.org/index.php?a=GetModule&mn=Sheriff_Bio

Quotes from the Official Maricopa county jail website, run by the notorious Joe Arpiao.

See the full bio on the link above. They seem very proud of this mans "achievements",

Pat A. Wertheim · Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Posts: 73 Location: USA

Sheriff Joe Arpaio is all you say and imply. He is popular among the Republicans in Maricopa County. He will probably get reelected for as long as he seeks office, to the detriment of justice and reasonable law enforcement.

But that is totally irrelevant to this discussion. The article I linked ends with the sentence, "The prosecution is being handled by Mary Beth Pfister, Assistant U.S. Attorney, District of Arizona, Phoenix."

In the US, there are around 20,000 local and state law enforcement jurisdications. Maricopa County is one of those. But this case is under Federal Jurisdiction, not Maricopa County or even the State of Arizona. If the Howes were to be extradited, they would be housed in a Federal detention center, not a county sheriff's jail.

My point was that the article presents a one-sided view, that of the Howes'. The ICE press release also presents a one-sided view, that of the US government. I suspect the truth lies at neither extreme.
_________________
Pat A. Wertheim
foridents@aol.com

scotkaz · Joined: 28 Aug 2008 Posts: 527

I have spoken to the man concerned and he is sure he is going to Marcopa County if convicted. This is one of the huge fears he and his wife have.

Brian did say, "The US will give a guarantee to put me in Florence federal facility for my hearing next month and that will have to be accepted, there is a waiting list to fight your case of up to 3 years in Arizona and that is hardly justice as our children would be in care and the youngest adopted."

However, you are correct there are two sides to the story and the article you posted obviously has a side too.

Like yourself, I tend to read the information on the sites, like official documents and letters from Officials, rather than take too much notice of some news articles. Some articles just get my interest and make me look further than others do.

From what I can make out so far, is that this couple had a business selling chemicals. 60 types of chemicals in total and not just the two which are mentioned.

For me and for others we find it really bad that someone could be extradited to another country despite not having commited a crime here in this country.

Also the fact they where held here in Scotland for 214 days without charge is appalling.

What these people want is to see what evidence there is. None has been produced and that too is appalling.

These people have no criminal record at all.

Brian tried to give an interview in a very short space of time earlier tonight and its on this link

http://brianhowes.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/bbcradio519-04-09.mp3

Pat A. Wertheim · Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Posts: 73 Location: USA

I agree that it seems strange that even if Brian Howes committed a crime as alleged, that he should be extradited to the US to answer under US law for something he did in Scotland. Would it not be a crime in Scotland for him to knowingly supply chemicals to an illegal methamphetamine lab? I know his position is that even if the chemicals were used for methamphetamines, he did not know that and should not be charged with a crime. In Scotland, how would that be handled? I think it is safe to speculate that I believe he would have a better chance for a fair trial in the US than he would in Scotland, if the McKie and Asbury cases (with which I am involved) are any indication.

The whole system of overlapping jurisdications in the US is absurd. Having some familiarity with other countries (Scotland and the rest of the UK included), I wish we were less fragmented over here. Still, I cannot imagine a situation in which a Federal prisoner would be housed in a County jail, either before or after trial. I'm not saying it could never happen, but that is just too strange under our system for me to contemplate.

_________________
Pat A. Wertheim
foridents@aol.com