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Big Wullie · Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 1149 Location: Glasgow

Iain

I must admit the wait you have had to endure has been enormous and many would have given up by now.
I agree with you in respect of having faith in the SNP to deliver a viable enquiry with the power to examine the previously unexaminable.
My only fear is the amount of pressure they will come under from people like Crown Office, Police, Law Commission and possibly the GLSS.

GLSS for those who have never heard of them are here:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/About/LPS/glss/glsslsla

We must remember these people do not want such enquiries that bring them into disrepute nor attack the justice system.

Remember also that.... Until Shirley McKie fingerprints were never challenged in our Scottish Courts...... They were accepted as infallible.

Any enquiry will further discredit the SCRO and heap more concern and outcries from the public.

Because of these concerns i think they will try to limit the remit.
They will try and salvage a doomed Judiciary instead of admitting that there was mistakes, Learn from them, and improve the system.
I hope i am wrong

Pat A. Wertheim · Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Posts: 73 Location: USA

Dear Big Wullie,

I am afraid you completely underestimate the significance of this thing. It was not merely the SCRO that was being challenged, and which a comprehensive inquiry would have to address. It is over a century of the use of fingerprints in all British courts. The SCRO is only one fingerprint organization in the British Empire. If they can do this, any other police agency can, as well. Do you think that the English Parliament, English ministers, or any others want to be tainted by bleed-over from the painting of SCRO with a black brush?

No, Wullie, you will find unimaginably strong resistance to an inquiry from all quarters of Great Britain. The premier professional fingerprint organization in the UK, The Fingerprint Society, has taken an official "hands off" policy regarding the fingerprint evidence in the Marion Ross murder, adopted by unanimous vote of that group at their annual business meeting in Liverpool in 2000. Their current chairman, Martin Ledbetter, is a strong supporter of SCRO and is opposed to an inquiry.

When you state that Iain has enormous endurance, and that many would have given up by now, I am afraid you understate Iain's devotion to the cause of justice, not just for Shirley, but for all in Scotland who have suffered at the hands of a corrupt system. Why would any man squander his life's savings, give up any enjoyable Scottish hobby such as golf, subject his wife (Mairi, a saint if ever there was one) to neglect for such an obsession as "justice," and let himself in for continuing frustration of the most severe degree? Iain's name deserves to be carved in stone with a marble statue of him in front of High Court in Glasgow. Such a tribute would be consistant with the quotes of Rabbie Burns carved inside of Glasgow's High Court.

Will the inquiry ever come? And will its remit be broad enough to deal with all of the issues in this mess? I doubt it, on both counts.

Sorry, Wullie. I pray I'm wrong.

Big Wullie · Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 1149 Location: Glasgow

Pat

I hope i never underestimate the Judicial System, I completely understand their powers and concerns of saving face.
I also understand that people like yourself do not want tarred with the same brush as those at SCRO.
I think the majority now know that you are more than willing to put your money where your mouth is so to speak, and tell the truth at all costs.
I also think people are now finding more and more experts coming forward for defence teams and telling the truth whereas before experts where never challenged.
Is the reason they were never challenged.... The lack of funding though?
I for one appreciate your work along with the other honest experts out there not only involved with Shirley's case but also the Van Der Vyver case too, Please keep up the good honest work you do.

I am somewhat surprised there was never any further challenges to fingerprint evidence in Scotland after Shirley's case though.
I expected hundreds if not thousands to jump on the bandwagon

I feel Iain will get his enquiry but fear the remit will not be what is expected in order as you suggest to protect the system, Unimaginable opposition at the highest level will be brought to bear on SNP over this enquiry and they may even be over-ruled on the remit, Who Knows but one thing is for sure: Numpties like Daktari despite their claims do not look forward to any enquiry.
The only person i know looking forward to this is the man himself who has fought tirelessly and continues to do so "Iain" he is the one needing closure and truth, Lets hope he gets it soon.

You ask the following:
Why would any man squander his life's savings, give up any enjoyable Scottish hobby such as golf, subject his wife (Mairi, a saint if ever there was one) to neglect for such an obsession as "justice," and let himself in for continuing frustration of the most severe degree?

Answer: Justice Pat, Justice thumped into him for 30 years as a policeman

I agree with you on the issue of Iain's name being cast in stone and a marble statue in front of the High Court (Though i don't think the Court would agree)
A truly remarkable man the police force should have retained, Though their loss is certainly our gain and i can only thank them for producing such a great advocate for justice, the likes of which we will probably never see again.

As you highlight correctly not only is he a staunch supporter and fighter for injustice's but he has given up his hobbies in pursuit of Justice and squandered his life savings doing so, What a truly remarkable man, I for one take my hat off to him and appreciate all he does for Justice

Big Wullie · Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 1149 Location: Glasgow

It would appear that 6 months after this article appeared in the Scotsman saying the remit would be announced in a couple of weeks, we are no further forward.

We have no remit.

http://news.scotsman.com/shirleym...i-tried-to-protect-her.3464586.jp

Is Angiolini at work right enough trying to block the remit in order to protect her predecessor Colin Boyd ?
Time will tell when we see the remit.

Iain McKie · Joined: 08 May 2007 Posts: 263 Location: Ayr, Scotland.

The delay is inexcusable Wullie.

However providing the remit is comprehensive enough to ensure that the experts, police, politicians and Crown Office personnel who failed to do their duty are identified then the wait will have been worthwhile. The longer the delay however the more suspicions arise that undue pressure is indeed being brought to ensure that certain individuals and organisations avoid investigation.

I am also sorry to announce that the conference planned for later this year has become a victim of the delay and has had to be postponed until next year. This has resulted from the pressure and workload the enquiry will personally cause me as I prepare for it. A November conference would probably have coincided with the start of any enquiry and would have reduced the effect of the conference and my ability to be in two places at the same time.

Plans are however proceeding to meet next year, hopefully in the parliament itself with high profile presenters and of course a focus on those who have suffered injustice.

My apologies to those who have been anticipating the opportunity to meet and debate but be assured the event will go ahead.

Iain McKie · Joined: 08 May 2007 Posts: 263 Location: Ayr, Scotland.

After a long wait and understandable scepticism the Inquiry has arrived and I expect it to take up a great deal of space on this forum as the starting date approaches. Over the next few days I will post relevant information and some explanatory material to allow the reader to understand just what is going on.

First some links to recent media coverage.

http://shirleymckie.com/documents/Enquiryannouncement.pdf

http://www.stv.tv/content/news/he...to_be_held_into_Shirley_M_2008031

http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/n...Kie_has_had_enough_of_inquiry.php

The remit is of course extremely important and a number of commentators have questioned whether it is wide enough to allow a full examination of the actions of all the main players.

Let’s analyse it paragraph by paragraph.

Quote:

to inquire into the steps that were taken to identify and verify the fingerprints associated with, and leading up to, the case of HM Advocate v. McKie in I999

Importantly this does not refer to ‘steps’ taken by the experts but to all ‘steps’ taken by everybody. This in itself should allow examination of the police, expert and Crown Office ‘steps’ related to the finding, examination and reporting of the prints. Everyone should be open to scrutiny. It is also important that ‘steps’ taken prior to Shirley’s 1999 trial can be examined. You should also note the use of the word ‘fingerprints’. This will allow enquiry into all prints including both mistakes.

Big Wullie · Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 1149 Location: Glasgow

Having Read the PDF document above and heard Alex Neil's speech i am convinced justice will be done and that no stones will be left unturned.
The fact that the McKay Report and Crown Precognitions are to be revealed speaks volumes.
Crown Office will be very reluctant to do this as they have as yet never released such documents.
Their attitude to me was they were given in confidence therefore were not open to release and had an absolute Ban under data protection and public interest.

I wish Iain and Shirley all the very very best and hope they can go back to the family Shirley wants

PeterCherbi · Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 167 Location: Edinburgh

Hi Iain

Good to see the inquiry finally announced, and I hope it brings the general clean up which the Scots justice system needs, and that those in charge do not shrink from doing their duty to the entire country on this one.

I agree with Big Wullie ... I watched the Press Conference and think that Alex Neil MSP will help matters through.

Only time will tell of course on how the inquiry goes but it should be a precursor to truth & reconciliation between the public and Scotland's notorious self serving, self protecting justice system, which has for a long time caused more injustice to innocent people than delivered justice for the country at large.
_________________
My blog on issues of injustice in Scotland A Diary of Injustice in Scotland by Peter Cherbi

Injustice Scotland Campaign website : Injustice Scotland

Nought Justice · Joined: 27 Feb 2008 Posts: 39 Location: Edinburgh

The wording of the following does nought to impress me' The purpose of this inquiry is not to try or retry any individual for
the events of the past, nor to challenge the decisions of the prosecution, the defence or the
courts in relation to any of those events. Indeed, the law is quite explicit that an inquiry
cannot rule on, and has no power to determine, any person's civil or criminal liability. The
purpose is to open up and understand those events and to learn from them, in order to ensure
that, for the future, Scotland has an approach to the identification, verification and
presentation of fingerprints that everyone can trust.

Not to try or retry anyone, SCRO workers are the ones who have acted criminally in their continued stance of they have done notjhing wrong and they should be charged.

The wording also shows they are more concerned with public opinion of the fingerprint service and want to restore this.
If I gave false evidence like some in the sheridan case then i would expect to be charged with perjury. is macaskill saying if criminality is found they will not be charged or prosecuted
the biggest joke though mist be this, The Scottish legal system has served Scotland well for centuries. Occasionally things go
wrong. When they do, it is to the credit of the system and the country that we seek to resolve
them and set matters right.
how many on this forum apart from the mckies have experienced anything partially like the above statement
we seek to resolve haha

Iain McKie · Joined: 08 May 2007 Posts: 263 Location: Ayr, Scotland.

My apologies for not providing more updates on the enquiry recently.

My illness meant a cutback in activity and all my energies are being focussed on reviewing the thousands of documents that I intend to make available.

There is little doubt that the enquiry has the potential to finally bring the SCRO experts and their supporters to book for the lies and misinformation they have spread over the years.

From the documents available it is startlingly clear how the evidence they gave to the Justice 1 enquiry was totally flawed and, with the benefit of hindsight and time to analyse, how contradictory it was.

The failures by politicians and successive Lord Advocate’s to call the experts to book is now easier to understand as it is revealed how other self-serving agendas were being pursued.

Senior police officers and civil servants also played their part in protecting the experts in their pursuit of what they would consider some ‘greater good’.

Hopefully the enquiry will help us understand how justice is so very difficult to achieve in Scotland and how excessive cost and delaying tactics drive all but the most determined to obsession and despair.

The reality is that vested interests and a stubborn incestuous culture keep most of us outsiders in a system meant to serve our interests.

I will update you for time to time over the coming months and when the enquiry starts a day-to-day summary of evidence will be provided on site.