shirleymckie.myfastforum.org

Pat A. Wertheim · Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Posts: 39 Location: USA

Fred has sued for damages and restitution: http://www.thestar.co.za/?fSectio...icleId=vn20080128022257828C932887

Let's hope the South African government is willing to make things right and not stonewall and cover up the way some other governments have been known to do.

Big Wullie · Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 548 Location: Glasgow

Pat

Police sued for R17,6m

How much is this in our money

Pat A. Wertheim · Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Posts: 39 Location: USA

Last August when I was in South Africa, the exchange rate was seven Rand to the dollar. I think the value of the dollar has shrunk since then. Mayber 14 or 15 Rand to the Pound now? I'm sure there's a website to convert currency figures, but I can't remember it right off. I would guess the amount is something over a million pounds.

Truthseeker · Joined: 24 May 2007 Posts: 15

I see the judge's comments on the bathroom mark saga have been posted:

http://www.clpex.com/Articles/VanDerVyver/SvVanDerVyver2007-Eng(Unoff)Mark.pdf

Whatamess!

Truthseeker · Joined: 24 May 2007 Posts: 15

If the above link doesn't work, go to

http://www.clpex.com/VanDerVyver.htm

and look for the 'bathroom mark' section in the left-hand bar.

Stillamess!

Iain McKie · Joined: 08 May 2007 Posts: 189 Location: Ayr, Scotland.

Dear Truthseeker,

The current threads on the Shirley McKie/David Asbury and Fred van der Vyver cases are revealing some fascinating insights into the motivation of the police and forensic witnesses in both cases.

We see how the Scots and South Sfrican ‘police’ experts presented flawed, partial and unclear evidence to the court and independent experts seeking support for their assertions. Fortunately for both accused some of these experts identified this ‘evidence’ for what is was.

Why was it however that the others didn’t? Were they criminal, incompetent, psychologically/emotionally/culturally flawed or was a mix of all these causal factors present?

In Shirley’s case independent fingerprint experts Peter Swann and Malcolm Graham and some of those at SCRO when given such evidence to examine fell into the trap and agreed with the mistaken identifications. Fortunately following Pat Wertheim, David Grieve and Arie Zellenberg’s findings the world expert community fell behind them and rejected SCRO’s findings.

In South Africa experts like Pat, Arie, Bill Bodziak and others following well tried and tested analytical procedures revealed the inherent flaws in the forensic evidence supplied by the police experts and the court rejected the prosecution findings.

Aside from the worry about how often this has happened in the past the immediate interest to me is why is it that so many experts made mistakes and having made them refused/failed to correct them?

Kasey has referred to "the God syndrome" the psychological factor,

Louis van der Vyver · Joined: 26 May 2007 Posts: 4 Location: South Africa

In our letter of claim, dated 25 January 2008, we demanded payment within 30 days, which has lapsed without any response. Our attorneys will now proceed to issue summons against the Minister of Police.

While we never really expected them to pay without argument, the total lack of response is truly disapointing. They will now have to face the full exposure of all the dirty laundry in this case, some for the second time and much more for the first time. New information is filtering through as expected, confirming our suspicions and allegations of deliberate fabrication as well as the covering up of the real killer. Not every policeman in the SAPS is corrupt and those who are not are not prepared to be branded for the illegal actions of some of their colleagues.

While a new investigating officer is appointed to re-investigate the murder, he is waiting for the Independent Complaints Directorate to complete their investigation into the conduct of the police involved with the first investigation as a result of the two sets of charges laid against them by private investigators. I have no idea how long this may take.

I will report on the developments as it happens, but will have to refrain from commenting on matters which may have a bearing on the legal process.

Kind regards,
_________________
Louis van der Vyver

Big Wullie · Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 548 Location: Glasgow

Louis

I wish you and your family all the best in your fight for justice, not only for yourself but to seek the truth as to who killed your Girlfriend.
Unfortunately your fight is only beginning and be prepared for the dirtiest fight of your life.
These experts whom the courts have relied upon for many convictions will never be held accountable for their actions.
I don't know about the procedures in South Africa but here any witness giving evidence for the prosecution is protected by Absolute Immunity.
In the Sally Clark (RIP) case and many others Professor Roy Meadows was involved in giving false evidence is proof of this.
Sir Roy Meadows was struck off the medical registrar only to be reinstated by the Appeal Courts.
When our courts fail to recognise experts can lie and fail to hold them accountable for destroying peoples lives then what chance do we ever have of proper justice.
Absolute Immunity should be abolished in Scotland and when experts tell lies like the Shirley case as well as your Own then they must be held accountable for their actions. Only then will justice be done

Pat A. Wertheim · Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Posts: 39 Location: USA

In another strange twist, the family of murder victim Inge Lotz has announced their intention to sue Fred van der Vyver for damages. Fred was arrested and charged with Inge's murder based entirely on evidence fabricated by the police, in spite of the fact that he was in an important business meeting an hour's drive away all afternoon with numerous coworkers present to vouch for his whereabouts. Believed to have orchestrated the fabrication of evidence were Bruce Bartholomew and Artie Trollip of the South African Police Service (SAPS). When it was proven at Fred's trial that every stitch of evidence against him was fabricated and he was in the meeting at the time of the murder, the judge found him innocent and criticized the police for irregularities in the evidence. Fred has sued for damages and this new lawsuit only adds to the tragedy for Fred and his family. Fred has announced that he will file a civil action against the police to recover the costs of his defense, as did Shirley in her terrible ordeal.

http://www.thestar.co.za/?fSectio...icleId=vn20080316085653748C757432

The real tragedy, of course, is that the murder victim, Inge Lotz, has been largely forgotten by the police and the courts. Her murderer, Werner Carolus, has confessed, then recanted when threatened by Trollip, then re-recanted and described the threats made by Trollip, who apparently wanted to avoid complicating the trial of innocent Fred with the confession of the real murderer. So the real murderer is being ignored and any search for justice for Inge is dead in the water.

I had hoped the SAPS would follow the FBI model in the Brandon Mayfield affair -- apologize, investigate their own operation, and make changes to assure it will never happen again. Instead, the SAPS is following the SCRO model -- deny, stonewall, and coverup. Just as it has been a long and tragic quest in Scotland to change things, and just as the murder victim Marion Ross has been largely forgotten, it is beginning to look like the pattern is being repeated in South Africa.

Big Wullie · Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 548 Location: Glasgow

Pat

Yes sadly all our justice systems seem to work the same way and are severely reluctant to admit their mistakes (Which Costs Them Dearly).
Will they ever learn ?
Lets hope the Enquiry will show them a thing or two and make some decent recommendations for change in a system so culturaly bias it cannot see the woods for the tree's.
At the very least Stevie Wonder can see the miscarriges yet our sysytems still work with their lights out and blinkered views.

People are starting now to take notice thanks to the internet which gives us all a voice and allows the cover-ups to become public knowledge and more in the public domain.

At least our Government and Lord Advocate seem to agree on the releasing of all evidence, which credit to SNP our last Government would not have ever dreamed of doing.

Roll on the enquiry.

PS. Pat it seems old Daktari has gone strangely quiet.

Best wishes to Fred and his family in their fresh fight.

William Beck