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W.Roughead · Joined: 25 Oct 2008 Posts: 120 Location: Scotland.

There have, over the years, been many cases where rape has occurred, the man or men concerned rightly found guilty, so I won't dispute that fact. Many of the women, or in some cases younger teenage girls, have had their lives ruined because of their experiences. That fact alone, cannot be disputed and I would not even dream of comparing like for like.

However, in this particular case, you appear to have a witness who continually changed her story, and apparently (hearsay) told others she had made the whole thing up. I would venture that this too, is not a unique case for varying reasons.

Quite regardless, I still feel that if the accused's name is mentioned, then so should his accuser.

I bring to mind a programme I watched a couple of years ago. I cannot recall who made it, but think it was a BBC documentary. The subject of the documentary was men who had been wrongly accused of rape, and the resulting consequences on their lives.

I was astonished at the number of men who appeared in the programme in terms of how it had ruined their lives, some of these men were men with families and very good jobs. I recall one man in particular who had a very good job in southern Ireland.

In his case, once it had been established that the girl in question had lied, and in fact had only met him on two occasions in the course of his work - where there were witnesses. Not only had the girl lied, it was later discovered that she had mental problems which were not investigated at the time she accused him of raping her. I believe it was also mentioned that she had pulled a similar stunt in the past.

His case didn't get to trial, but his name was all over the local papers, he and his family had to move and now live in the UK.

I heard similar interviews on this programme from men who didn't even know their accuser, let alone rape her. Some of the cases did not come to trial, but the point I wish to make is that with or without a trial, their names were broadcast, whilst their so called victim 'could not be named for legal reasons'.

To this day we do not know who any of these rape victims were, but you can bet your bottom dollar, that the various communites the men came from know the men's names!

In my book, that is totally wrong, and I've said it for years.

If a man rapes a woman, he should have the book thrown at him, this is not a sexual act, it is a violent act.

If a man wants to have sex with a woman be very sure that when she says 'no' you listen and walk away, otherwise you could find yourself in a heap of trouble.

Because of the nature of the act, a lot of the conversations leading up to, let's say 'casual sex' are done without witnesses, so it's your word against hers - and who do you think will be believed, so long as the evidence backs it up forensically, it can still look as if this was rape and not consentual sex.

Of course, it she was successful in her court case against the accused, she will be able to apply for compensation to the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board.

I believe, although I am not certain, that if a man's life has suffered and his mental health/wellbeing has suffered as the result of being falsely accused of the same act, he too can apply for compensation.

There was a taxi driver who received a substantial amount of money because he was wrongly accused. I cannot recall the details, or even if it happened in Scotland.

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david · Joined: 01 Mar 2009 Posts: 52 Location: edinburgh

After two of my friends and I were wrongfully convicted and sentenced to 18 years imprisonment one soon realises the amount of men that find themselves in similar circumstances.

It is a fact that most of the guilty are in denial but when you are in prison you can spot the innocent ones very easily. An innocent man fights his case. He has folders upon folders of case files in his cell. He constantly conveys his innocence and comes across as totally anti - authoritive. He writes to politicians, lawyers and journalists. I spent most of my time doing the above and was never out of the Governors office for being anti - authoritive. I was kept from the prison population, refrained from working and spent most of the prison sentence behind a prison door with no toilet or electricity and no glass in my window. Some would rightly say that gulity men deserve this. Imagine these conditions when your imprisoned for a crime you did'nt commit.

I met many innocent men in prison and a few have been cleared. One of my friends had his case referred by the SCCRC and awaits his appeal. He spent 5 years in prison amongst paedophiles, sex murderers and other heinous offenders. The fact is - there are many false allegations, but the public have the wool pulled over their eyes by politicians and Lord Advocates. I totally condemn the monsters who carry out these crimes but surely something has to be done relating to the liars.

When a man is found not guilty nothing is done to the complainer. There is hardly never any prosecution relating to Perjury. If a man is found not guilty then I think it can be said that the girl is lying. How can a man complain of perjury to the Lord Advocate and the Crown Office when it is the Crown Office and the lord Advocate who has sanctioned the prosecution in the first place. In this recent case the Crown pursued a case when there wasn't even a case to answer for many of the defendants. They were cleared half way through the trial.

I would be delighted if the men recently cleared pushed for Perjury charges. Surely this would have an effect on other women who feel they can cry rape whenever they feel like it. I don't get into the argument relating to low convcition rates. The only thing I would say on that is that the Government and justice system as a whole can't be really interested in it as they would have introduced Lie Detectoer tests to get justice for the many victims out there who don't get justice. Lie detector tests should be allowed in court and a jury should be able to use them as corroboration. This would weed out the false rape claims and highlight the true victims. At the same time it would rightly increase the conviction rates.

I find it absolutely astonishing that a rape liar can have the same protection as real rape victims when it comes to anonymity. It is not in the publics interest and a total sham. False rape claims lead men to severe depression, suicidal thoughts etc and yet the people who make these false claims are protected under a veil of secrecy. To me, that is a crime in itself. Absolutely shameful.

David

W.Roughead · Joined: 25 Oct 2008 Posts: 120 Location: Scotland.

Good post and points you've made here David. I particularly like the following.

Big Wullie · Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 1149 Location: Glasgow

David

scotkaz · Joined: 28 Aug 2008 Posts: 526

Wullie I emailed the SPS to ask some of the questions you asked and also some I had for myself.

Will let you know if I get a response.

I seen this article today. Good luck to the guy because he is right, and she should not be allowed to get away with this and anonymously at that!

'I want to sue woman who called me a rapist'

Published Date: 15 October 2009
By SCOTT McANGUS
ONE of the men acquitted with three others over claims they took part in a gang rape said today he was considering suing his accuser.
James Hyndman, from Blackburn, West Lothian, lost his job and missed most of the first year of his daughter's life on remand in prison after being arrested.

The father-of-one and fellow accused Steven O'Rourke were locked up with paedophiles and rapists and branded "beasts" by other inmates at HMP Edinburgh during eight months of hell waiting on the trial that would clear their name.

Mr Hyndman, 23, and three friends were accused of gang raping the woman who they said had willingly engaged in group sex with three of them on 11 February at her former home in Bathgate.

Robert Miller and Ryan Dunn were cleared of the charge midway through the trial, while Mr Hyndman and Mr O'Rourke were found not guilty at the High Court in Perth last Friday.

Mr Hyndman said: "It's been hellish. I missed the first year of my daughter's life and lost my job but I'm glad the truth came out.

"I just feel anger towards her. None of us should have went through this. It was horrendous.

"I was called a rapist in court by the QC and broke down in tears in the witness box. I was in prison with the worst kinds of people for nothing and got abuse from prisoners because I had the same colour of top as them.

"It was frightening. It was the worst time of my life and I shouldn't have been there. I can't explain how bad it was."

Mr Hyndman said he and Mr O'Rourke were both struggling to come to terms with their ordeal and were to consult a lawyer about legal action against the woman.

She claimed she had been gang raped by the four men and that they had threatened to kill her. But the jury unanimously found the men not guilty.

They had claimed she invited them all back to her home from the Livery Lounge, where Mr Hyndman had worked a couple of times as a bouncer, to have sex.

Mr Hyndman, Mr O'Rourke and Mr Dunn openly admitted having sex with her, while Mr Miller was banished to another room when she said she would "do three, but not four".

While the men's names were published before, during and after the trial, it is against the law to name a victim of a sexual crime, even when a charge is not proved.

Mr O'Rourke called for a change in the law to shame the woman, and Mr Hyndman agrees.

"No means no and I said that in court. I have a younger sister and I know how I'd feel if anything like that happened to her.

"Myself and Steven have been having ongoing nightmares and have been scared to go to sleep some nights.

"The money that was wasted at the taxpayers' expense on this case will be huge, and I'm also going to see a lawyer about what I can do because I lost my job and my earnings as well as the mental torture."

david · Joined: 01 Mar 2009 Posts: 52 Location: edinburgh

Delighted at the possibility of these innocent men suing this rape liar.

Hopefully they will pursue Perjury charges as well, as I would like to see the effect this would have on the many false allegations that are alleged every year. I believe if these men pursue this then surely it would assist the conviction rates too. False allegations lead to real rape victims not being believed. Punish the liars and hopefully justice will be better served.

David

david · Joined: 01 Mar 2009 Posts: 52 Location: edinburgh

wullie,

You are correct in saying that the SPS does not acknowledge that there are innocent people in prison. Prison officers know who the innocent are. Many prison officers asked me how the case was going and how she managed to get away with it.The SPS's antics relating to me were shocking.

Every time I was moved further south to be nearer my family, HMP Saughton would have me MDT'd immediately in the hope that I would fail and therefore be moved away. I was stripped searched after visits from little sisters whilst the drug dealers etc walked through without a care.

Because I was getting visits with Msp's, Paddy Hill etc , I was public enemy number one. Every time I was in edinburgh I was on the phone to journalists highlighting the case and the relating Governors didn't like it.

In Peterhead I was in a Hall with the worst trouble makers. I'm not a trouble maker but make no doubt about it , there was no way I was taking it lightly. I submitted complaint after complaint for the duration of the sentence. Every morning I went down to the PO's office and handed him 20 CP's every morning. Looking back I regret that, as it wasn't there fault I was there. They are just doing there jobs. I fought for my rights relating to legal correspondence and access to a lap top for legal purposes. Cons now have access to a Lap top now. I was barred from working in the sheds for having a bad influence on fellow prisoners and refusing to mix.

The amount of times I was in front of a governor and he asked me what was wrong and why was I anti authoritive. I simply told him I was innocent and any punishment he gave me was nothing compared to being locked up with the worst offenders in Scotland. I was punished repeatedly . I found my time easier when my door was closed and my head in a law journal or writing to people regarding the case.

Being locked up for a crime you never committed never leaves you. I hate the system and the people that done that to me. My life is destroyed because a girl spoke lies. There are loads of guys in prison who have also been fitted up. And there will be more down the line. I acknowledge every con says they are innocent but when you do time you easily spot the innocent ones. I spotted an innocent guy before he even arrived in the same prison as me. I read the story about his conviction in a newspaper and felt the conviction was dodgy. Lo and behold, after serving 5 years next to me his case was referred by the SCCRC. This is five years of being locked up in a tiny room for a crime he did'nt do. No toilet, water, electricity or even glass in your window. Five years away from his family and wife. And what for ? Because some girl feels like telling lies.

Fighting my case was mentally draining for obvious reasons. One has to understand that there were atleast 70 people who suffered the Miscarriage of Justice with us. All our families. We have went through a quiet period since released but that is due to the stigma of the case and our thoughts for our families. Believe me, this rape liar has'nt got away with it and some day the SCCRC will be hearing from us three again.

David

Big Wullie · Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 1149 Location: Glasgow

Perhaps we will find out that once these people who wrongly cry rape are named and shamed, other people will come forward who know them to be liars.

Perhaps they make a career out of this.

It is far from right that the accused are always named yet the accusers are protected and allowed to give evidence anonymously.

The whole culture is wrong in this day and age of openness and transparency.

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